This morning I am thrilled to publish an interview with Ruth Gaskovski, whose work at School of the Unconformed I greatly admire. Ruth offers the perspective of a mother and homemaker who has been growing in her homemaking “career” for almost twenty years. It’s invaluable. I am sure I will read her responses below again and again, gleaning something new each time. I hope you enjoy her words as much as I do.
What a gift to hear from a mother and homemaker in a more experienced season! I love this whole series, not least that the insights are coming from particular times in these women’s lives. I love Ruth’s emphasis on apprenticeship with her children. And this: “We are taught to associate career with monetary currency. I have come to realize that my chosen career comes is paid richly in currencies of time, relationship, tradition, personal and spiritual growth, and love.” As my mother told me long ago, not these exact words, but close: “your payoff will not be in a week or a month or a year, though you will be blessed in those times. No, you will see the fruit of your work in twenty years and beyond.” The intangible value of homemaking and motherhood is truly priceless. I will also be coming back to this interview for insights! Thank you, Ruth.
Glad that you have found some encouragement in my responses:) I should have added perseverance as a skill - I can see from my own life that while I trailed off in the wrong direction starting in my teenage years, I returned to many of the values that my mother had tried to inculcate in me. That is why I keep getting back to "bone marrow", because whatever patience, care, and love you actively demonstrate for your children will grow into them, and while it may lay dormant, will come to life by the time that they have their own children. Thus you are not simply investing in your own child, but their children to come.
Oct 20, 2023·edited Oct 20, 2023Liked by Ivana Greco
Continually glad I went first in this series! :)
It's heartening to hear that relationships are the crux of what we do, and that even though new challenges with that arise as they get older, we have an opportunity to build something in our families that will last. It's worth the effort. I needed the reminder that relationships should be served by everything else we do.
Also appreciated the part about traveling, but coming home! I did quite a bit of living in various US states as a young adult, but as a family we've still been hours away from the grandparents. It was heartening to hear your mother-in-law's help made such a difference in your new motherhood.
And of course, the turn toward the Christian faith is also begging for a story, but loved hearing that pivotal point in your life.
Thanks for reading Haley :) Yes, relationships are it! Learning how to communicate, appreciate, and fully know each other is an essential skill that will serve children in all their future relationships. We are blessed to be able to travel to Switzerland every summer to be with my family, but it is a lot of effort to stay connected with an ocean between us. Always enjoy reading your weekly recommendations and insights!
I loved the description of “triaging” and can so relate to this description. It’s like learning the mothering version of “order of operations”! Such a great interview!
"Order of operations" - that's a great twist :) I feel that is my continuous task. I had also wanted to add "creativity" as skill (but did not want to go on too long). Often solving problems requires you to do so with whatever you have at hand. This involves a lot of lateral thinking and I would almost bet that mothers have superior performance in the Alternative Uses Test (e.g. think of as many uses for this paperclip/ shoe/ pencil as possible) :)
Well, I think perhaps the mother and 2-3 year old might both score quite high on that test 😆, I’m constantly trying to think ahead of his alternate uses!
My pleasure! As you can see, I could brag about his accomplishments till the cows come home. One final thing: He recently had his first evaluation of a project (his supervisors are all MIT, undergrad, grad and PhD 😳😳😳). He received a 3/5 and said that he is quite happy to be considered “entirely average” by SpaceX standards. 🥳😁
Thank you so much for this wonderful interview, both. I listened to it this autumnal English Saturday morning whilst in triage mode of family life (to your excellent analogy, Ruth!). So much wisdom and beauty here. (Delighted to have found your Substack, Ivana, and past Q&As.)
Glad you enjoyed it Jenni :) Off to do some triaging myself (making a quick hummus, going to the mall with my daughter to exchange pants, and finally getting to the mountain of laundry...)
Thanks Ivana for the opportunity to share my reflections. You have created a wonderful series here, and I hope the fountains of experience, joys, and challenges shared will serve to encourage and affirm mothers in their homemaking careers.
I have been at home with my husband and children for the past 20+ years and while at times, I’ve longed for my kids to “long for” me after I return from a day of work outside of our home, we have raised (and are still raising) some truly wonderful young people. At one point, for three years, we lived in a 2 BR/1 bath 700 sq ft home (two young children, a toddler, an old cat and dog, my mom with advancing Alzheimers, my husband and me) and we somehow made it work (even the home-schooling part). The trials we have endured have made our kids much more flexible and resilient to the challenges they now face. Our oldest is so driven to excel and overcome any obstacle that he is interning at SpaceX right now and has a 4.0 in Aerospace Engineering. Sorry, I never seem able to resist the urge to brag about the kiddos! 😩😁
Ellen, I resonate! To quote myself from an earlier post (How to Make a Home for Humans): "Until our move three years ago, our three children (then aged 8 to 14) shared the same, small 10’ by 13’ bedroom. For 15 years, we had lived in a 1400 sq. foot townhome together with my mother-in-law, and she had the master bedroom. It certainly forced us to use our space deliberately, creatively, and with buckets of compromise.1 In a world where every individual is assumed to have the right to a private room, puzzling three children into a tiny space with bunk and loft beds, bookshelves, and clothes cubbies was not only an anomaly, but struck some friends and family as simply undoable. While there were plenty of challenging moments, especially during arguments (“Well, I am going to my room!” followed by “Oh yeah? Me too!”), the constraints of the environment produced a strong and lasting bond between the siblings. The smallness of the space forced them to learn tolerance, compromise, and self-denial, accompanied by a depth of camaraderie that fewer and fewer siblings experience. Their environment forged their interactions and the depth of their connection."
Your oldest son's internship would be my youngest sons dream! He wants to be an Aerospace Engineer - if you have any tips to share (on how to move the homeschooling trajectory in that direction) I would love to hear them :)
You are making me laugh so much this morning and for that I am thankful! We too have a closeness as a family that was likely borne out of both adversity and 700 sq feet of living space. I think one of the funniest moments for me was when our youngest (who had to sleep on a chaise lounge in our tiny living room because he was too little to risk going up and down the ladder to the low-ceiling loft with his siblings) told me “thank you” for painting his “bedroom” as I was putting paint on the living room walls! 😩🤣😂 Gosh, as far as the Aerospace thing, our 22 year old son transitioned from home-school to a hybrid Christian school for grades 9-12 and it was a wonderful experience for him. He enrolled in every AP and Honors course they offered and did well on his SATs. He ended up being salutatorian of his class. He’s the most determined and mature kid for his age I’ve ever seen so I give him full credit for where he is now. Oh and one thing I believe had a HUGE impact on him was that he began listening to Jordan Peterson at a young age. His whole approach to life changed. He began to straighten his room each day and also to plan out his future by setting specific goals. He decided fairly early on that he wanted to go the GA Tech and oriented everything toward that. He was waitlisted his first year and never for a second got deterred but rather attended University of North GA and then transferred with his 4.0 for his sophomore year. He’s dogged about his grades and internships (he was at NASA before SpaceX), but also loves bouldering, playing the guitar and socializing. He’s proven to me that anyone who is extremely driven and goal-oriented can bring his or her dreams to fruition.
Ruth, I'm so interested by how you manage this triaging. I instantly recognize what you mean by these situations of simultaneous needs (or perceived needs) and this kind of thing is one of my Achilles' heels. What sort of words or order or teaching of the children have you used to help this triage process go smoothly?
I am thinking about how when my four children all clamor at me at once, each for something different and usually in some ridiculous situation wherein they shouldn't be talking to me anyway (i.e. I'm in the bathtub or something!), I get hung up by frustration. I think "they should not be asking me for things while I am in the bath! What is the matter with them?!" followed quickly by "what is the matter with me that I can't get them to wait patiently and then talk to me in turns once I'm available?" which is also a losing way to think about it.
Oct 25, 2023·edited Oct 26, 2023Liked by Ivana Greco
I am not master over frustration (my children will readily attest to this). I think what helps most in those situations is to rephrase or lay out the various requests verbally: "So your sister needs help with an essay, your brother is desperately needs to find a cable, and you want to explode things in the garage. How about you help your brother with the cable, I'll look over your sister's essay while dinner cooks, and after dinner we can explode things." I find that restating requests also helps them to recognize that you could not possibly do it all at once, and a logical order often seems to naturally emerge. Again, this sounds neatly tied up (which it is not), but as children get older, they also grow more able to help each other solve problems or solve them on their own.
That is really nice. I've been trying to find ways for us to work more together as a family -- to give the children a sense that thinking of their siblings' need and the family's needs is what they *ought* to be doing (as opposed to seeing these things as interruptions to their personal plans). This actually is a really nice way to do that. Sort of a, "How can we solve this pile-up together, rather than it being just a massive dump of problems on Mom?!"
What a gift to hear from a mother and homemaker in a more experienced season! I love this whole series, not least that the insights are coming from particular times in these women’s lives. I love Ruth’s emphasis on apprenticeship with her children. And this: “We are taught to associate career with monetary currency. I have come to realize that my chosen career comes is paid richly in currencies of time, relationship, tradition, personal and spiritual growth, and love.” As my mother told me long ago, not these exact words, but close: “your payoff will not be in a week or a month or a year, though you will be blessed in those times. No, you will see the fruit of your work in twenty years and beyond.” The intangible value of homemaking and motherhood is truly priceless. I will also be coming back to this interview for insights! Thank you, Ruth.
Glad that you have found some encouragement in my responses:) I should have added perseverance as a skill - I can see from my own life that while I trailed off in the wrong direction starting in my teenage years, I returned to many of the values that my mother had tried to inculcate in me. That is why I keep getting back to "bone marrow", because whatever patience, care, and love you actively demonstrate for your children will grow into them, and while it may lay dormant, will come to life by the time that they have their own children. Thus you are not simply investing in your own child, but their children to come.
Yes! A legacy, God willing, beyond even that which we see or will see.
Continually glad I went first in this series! :)
It's heartening to hear that relationships are the crux of what we do, and that even though new challenges with that arise as they get older, we have an opportunity to build something in our families that will last. It's worth the effort. I needed the reminder that relationships should be served by everything else we do.
Also appreciated the part about traveling, but coming home! I did quite a bit of living in various US states as a young adult, but as a family we've still been hours away from the grandparents. It was heartening to hear your mother-in-law's help made such a difference in your new motherhood.
And of course, the turn toward the Christian faith is also begging for a story, but loved hearing that pivotal point in your life.
Thank you!
Thanks for reading Haley :) Yes, relationships are it! Learning how to communicate, appreciate, and fully know each other is an essential skill that will serve children in all their future relationships. We are blessed to be able to travel to Switzerland every summer to be with my family, but it is a lot of effort to stay connected with an ocean between us. Always enjoy reading your weekly recommendations and insights!
Lovely interview Ruth! I enjoy your newsletter and it was nice to learn a bit more about you 😊
I loved the description of “triaging” and can so relate to this description. It’s like learning the mothering version of “order of operations”! Such a great interview!
"Order of operations" - that's a great twist :) I feel that is my continuous task. I had also wanted to add "creativity" as skill (but did not want to go on too long). Often solving problems requires you to do so with whatever you have at hand. This involves a lot of lateral thinking and I would almost bet that mothers have superior performance in the Alternative Uses Test (e.g. think of as many uses for this paperclip/ shoe/ pencil as possible) :)
Well, I think perhaps the mother and 2-3 year old might both score quite high on that test 😆, I’m constantly trying to think ahead of his alternate uses!
My pleasure! As you can see, I could brag about his accomplishments till the cows come home. One final thing: He recently had his first evaluation of a project (his supervisors are all MIT, undergrad, grad and PhD 😳😳😳). He received a 3/5 and said that he is quite happy to be considered “entirely average” by SpaceX standards. 🥳😁
Thank you so much for this wonderful interview, both. I listened to it this autumnal English Saturday morning whilst in triage mode of family life (to your excellent analogy, Ruth!). So much wisdom and beauty here. (Delighted to have found your Substack, Ivana, and past Q&As.)
Glad you enjoyed it Jenni :) Off to do some triaging myself (making a quick hummus, going to the mall with my daughter to exchange pants, and finally getting to the mountain of laundry...)
:) you got to your laundry pile first! 😅Have a lovely weekend! X
Thanks Ivana for the opportunity to share my reflections. You have created a wonderful series here, and I hope the fountains of experience, joys, and challenges shared will serve to encourage and affirm mothers in their homemaking careers.
Beautiful article Ruth
I have been at home with my husband and children for the past 20+ years and while at times, I’ve longed for my kids to “long for” me after I return from a day of work outside of our home, we have raised (and are still raising) some truly wonderful young people. At one point, for three years, we lived in a 2 BR/1 bath 700 sq ft home (two young children, a toddler, an old cat and dog, my mom with advancing Alzheimers, my husband and me) and we somehow made it work (even the home-schooling part). The trials we have endured have made our kids much more flexible and resilient to the challenges they now face. Our oldest is so driven to excel and overcome any obstacle that he is interning at SpaceX right now and has a 4.0 in Aerospace Engineering. Sorry, I never seem able to resist the urge to brag about the kiddos! 😩😁
What a wonderful story! Thank you for sharing it!
Ellen, I resonate! To quote myself from an earlier post (How to Make a Home for Humans): "Until our move three years ago, our three children (then aged 8 to 14) shared the same, small 10’ by 13’ bedroom. For 15 years, we had lived in a 1400 sq. foot townhome together with my mother-in-law, and she had the master bedroom. It certainly forced us to use our space deliberately, creatively, and with buckets of compromise.1 In a world where every individual is assumed to have the right to a private room, puzzling three children into a tiny space with bunk and loft beds, bookshelves, and clothes cubbies was not only an anomaly, but struck some friends and family as simply undoable. While there were plenty of challenging moments, especially during arguments (“Well, I am going to my room!” followed by “Oh yeah? Me too!”), the constraints of the environment produced a strong and lasting bond between the siblings. The smallness of the space forced them to learn tolerance, compromise, and self-denial, accompanied by a depth of camaraderie that fewer and fewer siblings experience. Their environment forged their interactions and the depth of their connection."
Your oldest son's internship would be my youngest sons dream! He wants to be an Aerospace Engineer - if you have any tips to share (on how to move the homeschooling trajectory in that direction) I would love to hear them :)
You are making me laugh so much this morning and for that I am thankful! We too have a closeness as a family that was likely borne out of both adversity and 700 sq feet of living space. I think one of the funniest moments for me was when our youngest (who had to sleep on a chaise lounge in our tiny living room because he was too little to risk going up and down the ladder to the low-ceiling loft with his siblings) told me “thank you” for painting his “bedroom” as I was putting paint on the living room walls! 😩🤣😂 Gosh, as far as the Aerospace thing, our 22 year old son transitioned from home-school to a hybrid Christian school for grades 9-12 and it was a wonderful experience for him. He enrolled in every AP and Honors course they offered and did well on his SATs. He ended up being salutatorian of his class. He’s the most determined and mature kid for his age I’ve ever seen so I give him full credit for where he is now. Oh and one thing I believe had a HUGE impact on him was that he began listening to Jordan Peterson at a young age. His whole approach to life changed. He began to straighten his room each day and also to plan out his future by setting specific goals. He decided fairly early on that he wanted to go the GA Tech and oriented everything toward that. He was waitlisted his first year and never for a second got deterred but rather attended University of North GA and then transferred with his 4.0 for his sophomore year. He’s dogged about his grades and internships (he was at NASA before SpaceX), but also loves bouldering, playing the guitar and socializing. He’s proven to me that anyone who is extremely driven and goal-oriented can bring his or her dreams to fruition.
Just read this out loud to my 11 year old who felt quite inspired after hearing this story. Thanks for sharing!
Ruth, I'm so interested by how you manage this triaging. I instantly recognize what you mean by these situations of simultaneous needs (or perceived needs) and this kind of thing is one of my Achilles' heels. What sort of words or order or teaching of the children have you used to help this triage process go smoothly?
I am thinking about how when my four children all clamor at me at once, each for something different and usually in some ridiculous situation wherein they shouldn't be talking to me anyway (i.e. I'm in the bathtub or something!), I get hung up by frustration. I think "they should not be asking me for things while I am in the bath! What is the matter with them?!" followed quickly by "what is the matter with me that I can't get them to wait patiently and then talk to me in turns once I'm available?" which is also a losing way to think about it.
What has worked for you?
I am not master over frustration (my children will readily attest to this). I think what helps most in those situations is to rephrase or lay out the various requests verbally: "So your sister needs help with an essay, your brother is desperately needs to find a cable, and you want to explode things in the garage. How about you help your brother with the cable, I'll look over your sister's essay while dinner cooks, and after dinner we can explode things." I find that restating requests also helps them to recognize that you could not possibly do it all at once, and a logical order often seems to naturally emerge. Again, this sounds neatly tied up (which it is not), but as children get older, they also grow more able to help each other solve problems or solve them on their own.
That is really nice. I've been trying to find ways for us to work more together as a family -- to give the children a sense that thinking of their siblings' need and the family's needs is what they *ought* to be doing (as opposed to seeing these things as interruptions to their personal plans). This actually is a really nice way to do that. Sort of a, "How can we solve this pile-up together, rather than it being just a massive dump of problems on Mom?!"
Thank you for the kind words! I’m so glad I’ve found your Substack! It’s wonderful.